Advice Line with Steve Ells of Chipotle
with Steve Ells
Executive Summary
In this interview, steve Ells joins Guy Raz fresh off closing Kernel, his robot-assembled restaurant, and reopening as Counter Service - his attempt at a second rocket ship. Together they advise three founders: a remote South Australian distillery trying to stand out among 650+ craft competitors (be best in the world at one thing - the foraged-botanical gin - and let place carry the brand), a heated-mat founder torn between humanitarian mission and paying outdoor markets (build the sustainable business first, then bake the giving in), and an Abruzzo winery owner marketing to a generation that drinks less (one-on-one relationships, story-rich content instead of branding, and patient community-building). Around the calls: what robots can and can't replace in food service, and Steve's regret about living an unbalanced life while building Chipotle.
Key Takeaways
Takeaway 1
**Kill the good project that isn't the rocket ship.** Steve closed Kernel after less than a year not because it failed but because it "didn't appear to be the rocket ship that Chipotle was." Knowing the difference between a working business and a career-defining one is a founder skill in itself.
Takeaway 2
**Automation is a means to better food, not the product.** The robot arm polarized customers, and the pivot to Counter Service kept the workflow automation while restoring human interaction. The economic model exists to fund higher-quality ingredients - technology serves the standard, never the reverse.
Takeaway 3
**In a crowded market, narrow to what you're best in the world at.** Rebecca's gin - foraged local botanicals like saltbush, quandong and abalone shell - is her differentiation, not the vodka or whiskey. A cohesive product line around one standout story beats a broad range, the same logic behind Chipotle's famously limited menu.
Takeaway 4
**Place is a brand asset money can't buy.** Laphroaig turned remoteness into a global story; Streaky Bay's wild coastline, hand-foraging and lino-printed labels are equally ownable. Guy's concrete suggestion: a story booklet tied to the bottle neck, and a suitcase trip to Australian-friendly bars in LA and New York to test the US.
Takeaway 5
**Mission and margin are sequenced, not balanced.** For Sri's heated mats: build the sustainable commercial business (outdoor enthusiasts pay premium prices for gear that works, as Steve's own heated ski gear proves), then bake the humanitarian giving in - "for every 50 or 100 sold, we give one away" - rather than choosing between markets.
Takeaway 6
**Marketing to a skeptical generation is a relationship game, not an ad buy.** Chipotle had to teach fast-food customers a new ritual one person at a time. For Cantina di Rosina: newsletters that teach (what to eat with Abruzzo wines, how to taste) rather than promote, wine-club member dinners, chef partnerships hosted at the vineyard, and patient storytelling - young people want an experience and a story.
Takeaway 7
**Balance is a business decision, not a luxury.** Steve's closing reflection: he worked every day for years and now believes the business might have been even bigger had he been more balanced. Sustainability of the founder is part of the company's operating model.
The Conversation Breakdown
Steve's update
Kernel's robot arm, why it closed, the pivot to Counter Service (four-ingredient bread, artisan bakers, fresh everything), robots in food service as polarizing, and why the Chipotle foundation still applies.
Caller 1, Streaky Bay Distillers (Rebecca Smith, South Australia)
a midwife-turned-distiller after a family tragedy; ~$400K USD turnover doubling year over year across wholesale (57%), cocktail van (28%) and online (14%); standing out among 650+ Australian craft distilleries through foraged botanicals, place-story packaging and possible US entry.
Caller 2, Mat Zero (Sri, London)
USB-C heated mats born from a humanitarian childhood; traction across outdoor, consumer and healthcare markets; £109-£295 pricing; the focus-vs-mission question; Everest Base Camp deployment and -20C lab and field testing in Ukraine; sequencing commercial scale before baked-in giving.
Caller 3, Cantina di Rosina (John, Philadelphia/Abruzzo)
a family winery lost to phylloxera after WWI and bought back 100 years later; 500 to 15,000 cases; 80% US volume across four states; marketing wine to Gen Z amid declining alcohol consumption; one-on-one relationships, content-rich newsletters, chef and athlete partnerships.
The heated-gear aside
Steve the skier on battery socks, gloves and vests as proof that outdoor enthusiasts pay for warmth technology.
Closing advice
Steve to his younger self - live a more balanced life; the business might have been even bigger for it.
Replayed origin clip
the 2015 E. coli outbreak (52 people sick in one month) from Steve's 2017 original episode - "you wouldn't wish this on anybody" (labeled as a replay).
Core Frameworks & Ideas
Framework 1
**Ambition-versus-traction review (synthesis from Ells' account):** compare the venture's actual traction with the founder's intended scale, then weigh pivot, closure and continuing costs. Kernel's outcome does not make closure the default.
Framework 2
**Best-in-the-world narrowing:** pick the single offering where you are genuinely unmatched; let it carry the brand story and make the rest of the line coherent around it.
Framework 3
**Sequence mission after sustainability:** commercial traction in premium markets first; formalize the give-back (one-for-N model) once scale funds it.
Framework 4
**One-on-one differentiation:** teach customers the new ritual individually; the relationships compound into word of mouth that differentiates the product for you.
Actionable Next Steps
- ✓**Define your ambition and review fit:** write what success means for this venture and compare it with current evidence. Ells' decision to close Kernel is one founder's choice, not a reason to close an otherwise viable business.
- ✓**Review the product line:** identify which offer best carries the differentiation story; test changes before discontinuing products customers depend on.
- ✓**Put the story on the product:** a neck booklet, label series or insert that tells the place-and-process story in the customer's hand.
- ✓**Rewrite the newsletter as a resource:** one issue that teaches (pairings, how-tos, origins) with zero promotion; track replies and forwards, not clicks.
- ✓**Book one partnership trip:** a suitcase tour of five aligned venues (bars, restaurants, expeditions) in your target market, with samples and a story.
Notable Quotes
“Kernel didn't appear to be the rocket ship that Chipotle was and I wanted another rocket ship”
“we learned that the the human interaction is very very important”
“a company that focuses that that's best in the world at at something”
“And so we had to lead customers one by one”
“by the time I retired 27 years later, I think we had well over a million customers a day”
“they think more about using it as a branding opportunity rather than really great content or information”
“I would have tried to live a more balanced life”
The One Thing to Remember
In this interview, differentiation is built one customer at a time - even a million-customers-a-day brand is the sum of one-on-one relationships.