Advice Line with Michael Dubin of Dollar Shave Club
with Michael Dubin
Executive Summary
Michael Dubin updates Guy Raz on his writing, advisory work and wildfire nonprofit, then considers three founder calls. Benita of Kasbo’s Middle Eastern Kitchen wants people to try an unfamiliar cheese; the hosts discuss familiar uses, packaging, sampling and creative campaigns. Brandon of Parrs Mobile Mini Golf asks how employees can deliver consistent hospitality. Bria of Incidental Wildland has more uniform demand than production capacity. Dubin discusses capital and help, but no financing offer, garment-safety approval or uniform order is confirmed completed. His offer to connect through Safe Woods is an on-air intention. This call-in conversation differs from the archived 2018 founding interview.
Key Takeaways
Takeaway 1
Dubin's update frames the episode: after Unilever's reported $1 billion acquisition (2016, as stated on air) and a decade at Dollar Shave Club - half independent, half under Unilever - he finished a screenplay late last year, continues board/advisory work (including Liquid Death), started the Safe Woods wildfire nonprofit, and is 'noodling' new company ideas.
Takeaway 2
His read on viral marketing now versus 2012: the ecosystem is exponentially denser - you can still cut through with something truly original and authentic, 'but there's no way it lasts as long'; the long viral wave that built Dollar Shave Club is gone, so breakthrough creative must be sustained with everything else.
Takeaway 3
The disruptor's formula he gives founders in saturated markets: great product, great distribution, great communication - boring, and still undefeated; 'The last great consumer giant disruptor company has not been launched.'
Takeaway 4
Benita reports a future retailer launch and existing press. The hosts suggest familiar serving uses, packaging and sampling, with comic campaign ideas. Those are options to test with permission, food safety, truthful claims and cultural sensitivity, not instructions to manufacture a feud, promise coverage or sample every weekend regardless of cost.
Takeaway 5
Brandon asks about consistent service as the team grows. The hosts suggest expectations, training, shadowing, development and possible rewards or ownership. Hiring must include lawful, role-relevant skills and safety, not enthusiasm alone. Equity needs professional terms; rewards must be fair, affordable and compatible with employment rules.
Takeaway 6
Bria describes capacity and material costs for firefighter clothing. The hosts consider production partners, adjacent products and funding. Her safety-standard critique and industry figures remain attributed; no certification or protective performance is verified. Debt, equity, grants and nonprofit-related support have different terms and eligibility, so none is an automatic next source.
Takeaway 7
Dubin describes Safe Woods and offers to connect about uniforms. That is not a completed purchase or a commitment from the US Forest Service. His closing reflection on delegating marketing and being present is personal history, not a universal scaling or wellness rule.
The Conversation Breakdown
Dubin's update: screenplay, boards and Safe Woods
The speakers recount: The 2018 Ace Theater live-episode callback; the DSC recap (warehouse razors, improv-trained marketing, the 2012 video, Unilever's reported $1 billion acquisition in 2016, a decade split between independent and Unilever eras); now - a screenplay finished late last year that he'd love to produce, board and advisory work (Liquid Death), and new company ideas he's 'ready to jump back into' when the right one appears. Plus his take on cutting through today's noise: still possible with truly original, authentic creative - but the wave breaks faster, so you must sustain it.
Caller Benita: Kasbo's Middle Eastern Kitchen
The speakers recount: Chatham, NJ founder, a longtime HIBT community member ('long time fan, first time caller'); Syrian cheese - cow's-milk curd rolled in salt, cooked with mahleb (a spice from Middle Eastern cherry pits) - between feta and halloumi, melts to a two-foot pull; born from 2017 work translating for Syrian refugee families in New Jersey, encouraged by a cheese maker who tried to buy the recipe; launched full-force from the pandemic; ex-pharmaceutical sales; already covered by Florence Fabricant in the NYT and the cheese supplier to a high-end Middle Eastern restaurant; set to launch 2026 across a major grocery chain's New York City stores (her account). Question: guerrilla-style marketing plus a digital campaign beyond social. Dubin's advice: lower the bar - show how it slots into pizza, sandwiches, wine; coach usage at the QR code and sampling table; lean into the joke that 'everybody knows the best cheese comes from Syria,' complete with angry French-chef mascots. Guy's additions: sample relentlessly for a year, pitch New York's food press (Eater, Food52) on the new-category story. Dubin's closer: nail the packaging - and send it to him on LinkedIn.
Caller Brandon: PARS Mobile Mini Golf
The speakers recount: Vista, California (San Diego County) founder running mobile mini golf with his wife Claire - started in a Utah carport with four holes, relocated the family to California where it outperformed Utah; weddings and corporate events are the core; a high-end look that fits black-tie or backyard; projected over $200,000 this year; two delivery leads plus a gig pool; his wife returning to exhibit design at the San Diego Natural History Museum as he takes it full-time. Question: how to make employees deliver founder-level client interaction without founder-level skin in the game. Dubin's advice: an equity pool for the best and most loyal, and where that's premature, the development bargain - define what they'll leave with (A, B, C skills) and invest in it; ask candidates why they want the job and listen hard. Guy's advice: you're in the hospitality business, not mini golf - write the two-to-five-page customer-service manifesto (the Mike Sinyard/Specialized brand-bible story via the Adidas article), hire attitude over everything (hospitality backgrounds), reward standout client feedback with $100-300 gift cards, and let new hires shadow you. Bonus ideas: sellable at-home kits for a different consumer, and a permanent themed showroom course as a marketing tent pole.
Caller Bria: Incidental Wildland
The speakers recount: Flint Hills, Kansas founder; costume-construction degree into AmeriCorps (recession-era job market), prescribed fire with the Nature Conservancy in western Iowa, then fire suppression; nine years building custom Nomex/para-aramid uniforms - her proposed response to fit problems she attributes to a protective-clothing standard that (her professional view) turns issued gear into oversized duffel bags, worst for women; clients mostly pay by company card or reimbursement (she believes employers should pay); one part-time employee, contractors, and a contract cut-and-sew shop in Kansas City; the catch - sewing is the only hat she can pay herself for; material is very expensive and she refuses to be the priciest option; wildland fire ~87% male per the statistic she cites. Question: more demand than she can produce - what to scale first. Dubin's advice: raise money - equity capital for inventory, staff and manufacturing partners; don't be afraid of it; pitch for-profit investors and wildfire-aligned nonprofit funders; 'it's time to put some fuel on the fire.' Guy's additions: higher-margin accessories as a scalable bridge (and B2B learning curve), a big-vision pitch beyond fire (welders, utility workers), and - offered hesitantly - some overseas sourcing to lower costs (she's open but domestic-leaning). The on-air crossover is an offer to connect about a possible Safe Woods order, not a completed transaction.
Safe Woods and the crossover order
The speakers recount: Dubin's nonprofit, started after he stepped down as DSC CEO in January 2021 and got 'smoked out' of a vacation: eco-retreats bringing individuals and companies to Montana to do fuel-mitigation work alongside the US Forest Service - now migrating toward taking influential business and government leaders into the wildland to shape policy. The episode’s proposed connection, not a confirmed order: Safe Woods staff, Forest Service partners (if willing) and guests outfitted by Incidental Wildland - 'hit me up on LinkedIn and we'll do it.'
What Dubin would tell his 2010 self
The speakers recount: Personal: be more present - the all-consuming build pulled him out of other parts of life, and calm would have been worth more than a few of those sleepless nights, invigorating as the journey was. Professional: learn to trust and delegate in his own zone - finance and supply chain were easy to hand off because they weren't his background; marketing, the thing he loved, was the hard one to let go - and scale requires it.
Archival clip and edition notes
The speakers recount: From the 2018 live episode: first investor Science (Santa Monica) accidentally wrote the $100,000 check as $100 - discovered at the bank counter. Standard Advice Line frame (1-800-433-1298, hibt@id.wondery.com, guyraz.com newsletter); credits: produced by Nora Gill, music by Ramtin Arablouei, edited by Andrea Bruce; audio engineer as heard 'Sina Lafoedo' (ASR-uncertain spelling, flagged).
Core Frameworks & Ideas
The boring disruptor formula
Dubin’s stated comparison: product, distribution and communication work together. Use it as a diagnostic, not evidence that three labels explain success or guarantee a new entrant can defeat an incumbent.
Lower the bar for trial
For unfamiliar products, don't ask consumers to learn a new behavior - show the product slotting into what they already do (Syrian cheese on pizza, in sandwiches, with wine), then coach the extras at the QR code and sampling table.
Mascots and the 'everybody knows' joke
Editorial synthesis: test one understandable, respectful creative premise with the intended audience before a campaign. Consider evidence, permissions, costs and the effect on the people or cultures portrayed; humor need not become a false rivalry.
The development bargain
Editorial synthesis: define job expectations, fair compensation, support and development. Separate any proposed equity plan from normal employment duties and get appropriate advice. People need not identify with a founder’s mission to do excellent work.
Actionable Next Steps
- ✓Test a clear first-use explanation and food-safe, permitted sampling plan for an unfamiliar product. Budget the work and avoid unsupported health or quality comparisons.
- ✓Compare a small respectful creative test with simpler explanations and packaging. Measure useful response rather than assume a joke or mascot is required.
- ✓Write role-relevant service and safety expectations, then train and supervise a first shift. Do not substitute a manifesto for workable staffing and support.
- ✓Use lawful, consistent hiring criteria that include skill, reliability and training needs. Discuss development without expecting unpaid commitment or personal loyalty as compensation.
- ✓Map the capacity bottleneck, protective-product requirements and cash needs. Compare qualified financing and partners on eligibility, control, cost and downside; an on-air suggestion is not an offer or a safety approval.
Notable Quotes
“Probably. Does that mean you shouldn't try? Definitely not.”
“The last great consumer giant disruptor company has not been launched.”
“the wave doesn't last as long as it once did”
“everybody knows the best cheese comes from Syria”
“you're not in the mini golf business, you're in the hospitality business.”
“You've got to hire for attitude over everything.”
“it's sometimes hard to let go of the things that you love doing, but you have to do that to achieve the right level of scale.”
The One Thing to Remember
Identify the particular obstacle: first use, service consistency or production capacity. Dubin and Guy suggest different experiments for each; a bold campaign or new funding is not automatically the next step.