Unconventional product lessons from Binance, N26, Google, more | Mayur Kamat (CPO at N26)
Executive Summary
A Lenny's Podcast conversation with Mayur Kamat, chief product officer at N26 and formerly at Binance, Agoda, Google and Microsoft, on hiring and developing product managers, working at Binance, the failure of early Google Hangouts, experimentation, career paths and why banking is a durable market. PARTIAL COVERAGE: the episode runs about 98 minutes and the available caption text is cut off at around the 55-minute mark, so the last part is not covered. Company claims are Kamat's own and are unverified. This is a summary of his views, not career, legal or financial advice.
Key Takeaways
The Hangouts lesson
Kamat says he was the first PM on Google Hangouts and the main lesson was not to take on six-month or one-year projects, because you do not control the macro.
Science of product management
He says everyone thinks they can do the PM job, and that the moment you build experimentation you make the discipline scientific.
Strategy is overrated
He says strategy is a little overrated for most product managers, whose strategy should be how fast they can go from hypothesis to data.
Working at Binance
The host says Binance was one of the most unique ways of working and has no official headquarters, and Kamat describes it as a place unlike his others.
Work-life awesomeness
He says if the work fills your cup it will not feel like sacrifice, and that the moment work-life balance comes up you may not be on the right track.
Alternative career paths
He says founding a company is the obvious alternative to the CPO path, but that much of running a company has nothing to do with building a product.
Why banking is a good product
He says banking has no upper market bound, is self-hedged against interest rate changes, and rewards deep experimentation skills.
The Conversation Breakdown
The Hangouts lesson
⏱ Untimed topicKamat says he was the first PM on Google Hangouts and the main lesson was not to take on six-month or one-year projects, because you do not control the macro.
Science of product management
⏱ Untimed topicHe says everyone thinks they can do the PM job, and that the moment you build experimentation you make the discipline scientific.
Strategy is overrated
⏱ Untimed topicHe says strategy is a little overrated for most product managers, whose strategy should be how fast they can go from hypothesis to data.
Working at Binance
⏱ Untimed topicThe host says Binance was one of the most unique ways of working and has no official headquarters, and Kamat describes it as a place unlike his others.
Work-life awesomeness
⏱ Untimed topicHe says if the work fills your cup it will not feel like sacrifice, and that the moment work-life balance comes up you may not be on the right track.
Alternative career paths
⏱ Untimed topicHe says founding a company is the obvious alternative to the CPO path, but that much of running a company has nothing to do with building a product.
Why banking is a good product
⏱ Untimed topicHe says banking has no upper market bound, is self-hedged against interest rate changes, and rewards deep experimentation skills.
Core Frameworks & Ideas
Hypothesis to data - Kamat's PM strategy
Measure how fast you can go from an idea to evidence.
Experimentation as science - Kamat's view
Build experiments to make product work scientific.
Self-hedged product - Kamat's view of banking
Build products that complement each other across macro conditions.
Actionable Next Steps
- ✓Time how long it takes your team to go from hypothesis to data.
- ✓Avoid projects that take six months or more without checkpoints.
- ✓Ask what you are good at and love doing before choosing a career path.
- ✓Check Kamat's claims about Binance and N26 against public sources.
Notable Quotes
“Strategy is a little bit overrated for product.”
“The moment you build experimentation, you've now made it scientific.”
“How fast can I go from hypothesis to data?”
The One Thing to Remember
Kamat says that for most product managers, strategy matters less than how fast you can move from a hypothesis to data.