Allbirds CEO: Why Sustainability Leads to Profitability
Executive Summary
Allbirds co-founder Joey Zwillinger talks with Shopify on Location in San Francisco about outsider thinking, comfortable shoes with minimal branding, learning from direct customers and a used-shoe resale program. Notes cover selected product and business passages from essentially the full public auto-captions, checked against official Shopify show notes dated May 18, 2023. The video was uploaded again on March 28, 2024; the date shown here follows the original show-note date. Climate-policy passages are not covered. Zwillinger's sustainability, sales and resale claims are his account at the time, not independently verified outcomes or a current assessment of Allbirds profitability.
Key Takeaways
Two outsiders
Tim Brown, a New Zealander who played professional soccer and was vice captain of the national team at the 2010 World Cup, found the sports industry underdelivered. Zwillinger ran a chemicals group at a San Francisco biotech making alternatives to petrochemicals.
Outsiders do things differently
Because there are few shoe companies in the Bay Area, they drew talent with skills from outside the industry, which let them do materials, manufacturing and go-to-market differently from the usual approach.
A wider customer than a local stereotype
Zwillinger says Allbirds customers are not limited to its San Francisco origin and describes New York as a major market. His point is to avoid confusing the founder's location with the reach of a product. This is the company's interview-period view, not a current market ranking.
Comfort plus a quiet aesthetic
The consumer insight was blending an incredible comfort experience with an austere, beautiful design with minimal branding. He asks whether you would go to a business dinner in a t-shirt with a big logo, which is what shoes did.
A narrow initial product with a different materials approach
Zwillinger says the company sold a million pairs of one shoe in two years. He also contrasts its wool and tree-based materials with conventional footwear inputs. These are his sales and materials claims; the interview does not independently establish environmental impact or profitability.
Direct first, then wholesale
The direct-to-consumer approach gave fast, direct customer insight that they now use to educate retailers as they enter wholesale with a different, curated assortment. COVID slowed this by about a year and a half.
Resale and cannibalisation
Their used-shoe resale program was a surprise to him, but customer research supported it. The usual fear is cannibalising full-price sales, which they did not see. It is an entry point for people unwilling to pay $100 and many move to full price. They are constrained by inventory of lightly used shoes.
The Conversation Breakdown
Two outsiders
⏱ Untimed topicTim Brown, a New Zealander who played professional soccer and was vice captain of the national team at the 2010 World Cup, found the sports industry underdelivered. Zwillinger ran a chemicals group at a San Francisco biotech making alternatives to petrochemicals.
Outsiders do things differently
⏱ Untimed topicBecause there are few shoe companies in the Bay Area, they drew talent with skills from outside the industry, which let them do materials, manufacturing and go-to-market differently from the usual approach.
A wider customer than a local stereotype
⏱ Untimed topicZwillinger says Allbirds customers are not limited to its San Francisco origin and describes New York as a major market. His point is to avoid confusing the founder's location with the reach of a product. This is the company's interview-period view, not a current market ranking.
Comfort plus a quiet aesthetic
⏱ Untimed topicThe consumer insight was blending an incredible comfort experience with an austere, beautiful design with minimal branding. He asks whether you would go to a business dinner in a t-shirt with a big logo, which is what shoes did.
A narrow initial product with a different materials approach
⏱ Untimed topicZwillinger says the company sold a million pairs of one shoe in two years. He also contrasts its wool and tree-based materials with conventional footwear inputs. These are his sales and materials claims; the interview does not independently establish environmental impact or profitability.
Direct first, then wholesale
⏱ Untimed topicThe direct-to-consumer approach gave fast, direct customer insight that they now use to educate retailers as they enter wholesale with a different, curated assortment. COVID slowed this by about a year and a half.
Resale and cannibalisation
⏱ Untimed topicTheir used-shoe resale program was a surprise to him, but customer research supported it. The usual fear is cannibalising full-price sales, which they did not see. It is an entry point for people unwilling to pay $100 and many move to full price. They are constrained by inventory of lightly used shoes.
Core Frameworks & Ideas
Outsider skills in an established category
Recruiting outside the usual footwear talent pool helped the founders try different materials and ways of bringing a product to market.
Direct learning before wholesale
Zwillinger describes using direct customer insight to inform the assortment and explain it to retail partners. That learning came before broader wholesale distribution.
Test resale rather than assume substitution
He says the used-shoe program brought in customers who might not buy at full price and did not show the expected cannibalisation. Treat that as a result to test in your own category, not a general rule.
Actionable Next Steps
- ✓Hire for skills from outside your industry when you want to do things differently.
- ✓Test whether a second-hand or resale channel brings in new customers before you worry about cannibalisation.
- ✓Strip logos if your customer wants to wear the product in more places.
- ✓Measure customer movement from resale to full-price purchases before expanding a resale channel.
Notable Quotes
“our customer is everywhere”
“95 plus percent of the shoe industry makes their products out of plastic”
“more like a tree”
The One Thing to Remember
our customer is everywhere